Interview by Rachel Jablonski
Burton C. Bell is both deep and reflective. Originally of Fear Factory fame, Burton has captured a spiritual journey through his latest album titled Numinosum under his band Ascension of the Watchers. I was able to speak with Burton about his project as he explained very vividly his dreams, perceptions, and musical orchestration.
Rachel: You’ve said the concept of this record, Numinosum, came to you in a dream. Was the dream through your own eyes like you were watching it or could you see yourself in the dream? What did it involve?
Burton: Well in my dreams, it’s always through my eyes. But the concept of this record, it didn’t really start with the dream. The dream was part of my growth and it helped me. The dream was the beginning of my journey, it was also the description of the end, which is kind of hard to describe. The music for this album was really just my journey through my future endeavors; to prepare my future career and to really speak through my own heart and soul. The dream was just the beginning of it, but the album is not really the concept the dream.
Rachel: Ok, that makes sense. Was there anything significant that you can say from the dream?
Burton: The dream that I had didn’t really make sense to me until the album was done. I had this dream years ago, back in 2000. It was a very powerful dream and at that time I was seeing this dream analyst therapist kind of thing. I was going through some personal stuff I felt I had to work through. She was specialized in dream analysis. So I had this dream and I described it to her. I started writing my dreams down at that point and it was very intense, very real. I wrote it down and I remembered it. I keep journals, as a writer I keep journals of observations, words, whatever. It’s what I do. As a writer this is my way of keeping my memory and writing my thoughts down. I have books and books of writings and of everything. I just constantly write my emotions and my thoughts and over the years I’ve kept everything together and sometimes I reread things. But when the album was finally recorded and I was putting the artwork together and I named the title I was like wow. When everything was finally together I was like wow this is exactly what I experienced. The cover of the album was the final part of my dream. I didn’t realize that until it all came together. Now to me my spiritual journey was speaking to me. It may be fate or my mind was trying to tell me that this is the journey you need to take, this is what can happen. I had no idea what I was doing. In my dream I was going over land and landscapes and I was traveling. But in my dream every time I turned around there was a shadow following me, like a figure. It was a shadow that I couldn’t see, it had no face, but it was following me and I was trying to get away from it; evading it so to speak. I kept moving from it, moving away from it. I came to this cliff and I looked down and to me it was impossible to get away. I turned around and the figure was coming towards me and as I looked out over the cliff I put my arms out and I took flight. I frequently fly in my dreams. It’s a very powerful moment. So I started flying over these landscapes and going to different lands and seeing sunsets and clouds and I came down to this clearing of trees and landed. When I landed, the whole clearing started glowing orange. I turned to look at this one tree in the center and it was just blazing; it was like fire just glowing orange and lighting everything up orange. In my dream I felt something behind me and when I turned to see what it was, that’s when I woke up.
Rachel: Oh wow, that’s powerful.
Burton: So that’s what I remembered. I would think about the dream once in awhile but I never really understood the whole message of it until I finished recording the record; that’s when it all made sense. Dreams are very, very powerful. I dream frequently and when I dream it’s like I’m living another life, it’s so realistic. I wake up exhausted sometimes.
Rachel: Why do you think you fly? Does that symbolize something specific?
Burton: I’ve been told that flying means transcendence and that you’re transcending over something. When I fly I don’t fall, I’m actually flying and I can control my movements. I don’t wake up before I land, I land. People have dreams where they’re falling and they wake up before they hit the ground. I actually hit the ground; it’s a controlled land, I control the dream. It feels great too. Flying in a dream feels awesome.
Rachel: That has never happened to me; that’s cool. The album screams a tortured soul, desperate for comfort, explanations, and answers, hoping someone listens from my interpretation.
Burton: That’s a good interpretation.
Rachel: That being the case is he ever heard and/or comforted?
Burton: To me these are songs of redemption. There is a cry or a plea of a soul that’s hurt or tortured from things that they’ve done or people they’ve hurt, actually not “they,” these are songs about people I’ve hurt or people I’ve done wrong to in the past. So these are songs of redemption, for forgiveness. Songs where my God will forgive. Because I have done this record I really feel redeemed. I feel like I’ve done the right thing. So there is hope. The songs are almost exactly in the order they were written and so it is a true journey. In the beginning you can feel the desolation of it all, how bleak it feels and how tortured I feel. As time goes by the spiritual journey progresses and at the end it feels very uplifted.
Rachel: The Book of Enoch is said to have inspired your band name. The Dead Sea Scrolls are not necessarily widely read I mean they aren’t on The New York Times best seller list or anything. How did you come about reading them?
Burton: I was reading a book, I read frequently – fiction/non-fiction and sometimes college textbooks – and I was reading this book by a lady named Elaine Pagels called The Origin of Satan which is an actual historical look at how the term “Satan” came about. There were a couple pages where she started talking about The Book of Enoch and “The Watchers.” It was the term “The Watchers” that really caught my eye. There was a paragraph, a description of The Watchers and I thought wow that’s cool. So I basically researched and found a copy of The Book of Enoch in The Dead Sea Scrolls. I read that prose and I was like wow that’s really cool. In a strange way, in my mental state at that time, I felt like my life paralleled it. I related to it in a lot of ways. It spoke to me so I thought, this is a sign.
Rachel: I’ve always very much enjoyed your vocal tones – they always seem to translate quite well.
Burton: Well thank you.
Rachel: What was your vocal and lyrical approach for this record? Did you stray at all from your comfort zone?
Burton: To me, this is my comfort zone. The famous story is that Dino discovered me singing in the shower. I was actually singing, I wasn’t screaming. I wasn’t yelling or barking, I was actually singing. At that time Dino and I lived together and at that point before Fear Factory was around I was singing U2 and stuff like that. So this is my comfort zone. These are the sounds I feel in my heart, I feel in my soul, these are chords that I speak. Singing over the music I’m writing, this is just another melody to put on top of it; it’s like an orchestration of sorts. This is truly a comfort zone for me and as weird as it might have been for me, I know I’m doing something different, but this is what I’ve got to do.
Rachel: Was Fear Factory style more your comfort zone at the time?
Burton: When Fear Factory started I was, what, twenty-one? And yeah, I was an angry kid. So I had a lot to yell about, I was pissed off. But as time goes by you work it out. You accept some things as life; it should be a therapy. And if that therapy doesn’t work you’re certainly not doing something right. I feel that as time goes by I feel a little bit more refined. I’m a 38 year old man now, I’ve worked through a lot of things; I’m not an angry kid anymore.
Rachel: Right, I totally understand.
Burton: So there never will be another Demanufacture, sorry. [laugh] Actually, I’m not even sorry. I’ve moved on from that.
Rachel: Do you ever go back though and either see where you came from or enjoy it in the same way or do you even listen to that type of stuff anymore?
Burton: Well I don’t go home and listen to Fear Factory songs. Before I was in Fear Factory I was into post-punk, avant-guard, industrial type of music. When I met up with Dino he introduced me to stuff like Carcass and Napalm Death and Earache Records and the only thing I liked on Earache was Godflesh. To me, that was industrial. So yeah I go back and listen to that kind of stuff all of the time. But I don’t really have any metal records because that’s not what I was into. I was into industrial. But yeah I go back and listen to – I’ve got a huge record collection. Well huge, I’ve seen bigger, but I’ve got a pretty diverse record collection and I listen to all my old records still.
Rachel: Given that your work has so strongly influenced the current Scandinavian scene (Mnemic, Raunchy, even Soilwork all share a direct lineage to Fear Factory), how do you like the stuff coming out lately? Do you stay up on that scene at all?
Burton: There are a lot of bands like that, but no I don’t really keep up. I check stuff out, but it’s a genre I’m just kind of over.
Rachel: How do the audio samples, for instance like the sample that begins the first track, fit into the concept of the album? What are the samples from?
Burton: I watch movies, I love movies and sometimes there is some piece like a dialogue part and I’m like oh that’s really cool and I remember it. The first part of the song “Ascendant” really speaks to where I’m going. It’s a statement that’s like wow I couldn’t have said it better. I watch movies, T.V. shows, whatever and sometimes I’ll find something that I’ll list. A long time of go I was told “a good artist borrows, but a great artist steals.” [laugh]
Rachel: [laugh] That’s funny.
Burton: But it’s true! You have to make it your own.
Rachel: Why did you choose to cover Simon and Garfunkel’s “Sounds of Silence”?
Burton: There are a few covers I was trying out that I’d been working on, but “Sounds of Silence” to me is like wow. I’ve always liked Simon and Garfunkel, they were one of my influences growing up as a kid, you know? My parents listened to them, you’d hear it on the radio, I like Simon and Garfunkel – I’m not going to apologize for it. [laugh] I’ve always loved that song. But it was a few years ago that I found a 7” of it, a 45 single. Some people may not know what those are anymore, but I found it and as a test, an experiment, I played the 45 at 33. When I played the 45 at 33 that song became the heaviest goth song I’ve ever heard. It was perfect, the drums and everything. It sounded awesome and I was like I’m going to cover it just like that. So I did the 33 version of a 45 of “Sounds of Silence.” My twin brother played guitar on it and he also did the harmony vocal. So I loved the song, but lyrically I think it really makes as much of a statement as it did when it was written in 1969. It is still that statement, maybe even more powerful today.
Rachel: Well it turned out really cool.
Burton: Thanks, thanks. Yeah we did a great job. Al [Jurgensen of Ministry and 13th Planet Records] was like I’m going to mix this song and he made that his baby. I had done a cover of a Fleetwood Mac song called “Hypnotized” that I only have in demo form, but I’ll probably release that eventually.
Rachel: Do you already have things in the works to do a follow up to this album?
Burton: Yes I do. I’m already working on new music, I’m always writing some new chords. I’m a feeling person and I’m a human being so I’m always feeling some type of emotion. So I have a guitar with me and however I’m feeling these chords are resonating through me. So yeah I’m writing new songs, but the next release for The Watchers is going to be a cover album. It’s a plan I’ve had for many years. I’ve had the album title and everything. I have the whole vibe down I just need to get it recorded. That’ll hopefully come out next year.
Rachel: Do you have any tour plans coming up and what’s next for you?
Burton: Right now I’m touring with Ministry as a guest vocalist so I’ll be on the Ministry C-U-LaTour. So that’s what I’m doing right now, but The Watchers will be touring later this year. We’ll be doing a proper U.S. tour and Europe and anywhere else we can get to. We’re planning a full U.S. tour later this year, later this fall.
Rachel: Cool. Anything else you wanna talk about?
Burton: Um, no I think we’ve covered everything. [laugh] Like your website, I think I was on a stream of consciousness about some things and I think my mind should have probably shut up. [laugh]
Rachel: [laugh] Well thank you very much! It was great to talk to you and good luck!
Burton: Thank you Rachel, I appreciate your time.